How they should have made backup devices.

[Goldcd]

How this for an idea.
A backup device loosely based on a PC (Z64 like). Use CDs to store games (V64) and have a decent high speed connection to connect to a PC if you'd like (V64jr). Let it use normal memory (CD64) which you can easily and cheaply upgrade. Instead of having a variety of memory save carts (V64) have a bit of generic memory stuck on the motherboard. This using the bios will be able to act as all types of save memory, when a new format comes out we get the new bios and off we go with a smile on or faces. We then stick a 3 1/2" floppy into out device which costs us fuck all money, but enables us to save the game saves cheaply and easily. Finally we make the whole thing look lovely, and don't make it a disgusting cream colour.
I'd buy it.

[_kid]

> A backup device loosely based on a PC (Z64 like). Use CDs to store
> games (V64) and have a decent high speed connection to connect to a PC
> if you'd like (V64jr). Let it use normal memory (CD64) which you can
> easily and cheaply upgrade.
This alone would cost, say US$500. Still interested?

> Instead of having a variety of memory save carts (V64) have a bit of
> generic memory stuck on the motherboard. This using the bios will be
> able to act as all types of save memory, when a new format comes out
> we get the new bios and off we go with a smile on or faces.
This calls for, say, 128K of SRAM on board and a in system
programmable logic chip for the emulations.
It asks for another US$100-US$150

> We then stick a 3 1/2" floppy into out device which costs us fuck
> all money, but enables us to save the game saves cheaply and easily.
> Finally we make the whole thing look lovely, and don't make it a
> disgusting cream colour.
Mmmhhh a floppy and a controller... say US$20-US$50 more...

> I'd buy it.
Best case would be US$620, whereas worst case would be US$700...
If you can ensure me that you will buy atleast 1000 pieces in the
first order I'm set to produce it in 1-2 weeks. If you want a
working prototype without mass production I need around $1000-$1500
and 2-3 weeks...

**I'M NOT JOKING**

[Vertigo]

As usual there are always good and bad points with any products that are essentially in competition. Personally, I'm happy with my DV64 and the service it has given me. But us who were there from the start with the Bung machine are STILL waiting for a proper upgrade.

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I'm not opinionated, I just talk a lot.

[handy]

Normal memory? haha, the cd64 doesn't use normal memory, maybe it does, but if you read the many posts here about people who haven't a clue what type of memory works for that thing, you'd know it doesn't use anthing like normal memory. [what is that anyway?]

What would be better is just a 128meg backup thingy with a NIC port [network card].

fairly cheap, extremely fast load & transfer.

[Vertigo]

I don't have normal memory either.

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I'm not opinionated, I just talk a lot.

[Goldcd]

OK, I'll admit I was slightly off target with my "normal" memory and just bung in x y and z.

How about a slight elaboration. Make it PC based (I'd thought the Z64 ran off a 386?? although I've no idea why I thought this).

A Pentium PC if you blag the bits second hand/clearance etc with TV output is going to be about £100 at the very most. If you could upgrade the connection between the PC and an upgraded DrJr say USB (though older MBs won't have this, so maybe a budget SCSI card) anyway. If the link was sped up the PC could actually act as an intelligent controller for the DrJr and all memory saves/upgrades could be automated. In fact you could stick in a modem into the PC as well. Would be just about capable of browsing the net to blag your own Roms.

My point is that whenever I see a new product there are always HUGE problems with it which are immediately obvious, but are ignored by the maker.

CD64 - Nice idea but they kept on breaking down. We all the knew they broke down. We warned people about them etc etc, but they still roled off the productin line screwy.

Dr64 So it takes its own memory does it, and we have to get that from you. Ok... Not going to be cheap is it...... and as we need more now don't you think we'll need some in the future you know advances and all, and thay goes where exactly. plus the Dx256 oh and the DS1 (can't seem to find the knobs on this, I'm sure it's not going to be too much of a pain in the arse changing files).
Mmmmm Cream eh? know needs sexy black which is the same colour as your N64. We want everybody to notice that great big brick we've just made. (oh and can we tuck the buttons in at the front, have completely random functions, and a cheap plasticy feel - cheers).


Z64, erm where's the PC link. Yeay Yeah I know it's only for backup <wink><wink> but seriously where is it. No I've got a Zip drive you see it's in that Z64 I just bought from you. No I really don't want to go and buy another identical drive and have the two of them sitting 12 inches from each other.
There's also the duh we never thought they'd make the carts any bigger. Yes we've managed to engineer this beautifuly formed product but we just never thought they'd do that. This is now followed by.....they've made the carts bigger again, but they've already done that...we never thought they'd do that...

At least with the Jr it was sold as being cheap and cheerful, (well cheap until now anyway). I've they'd built in a DX256 and a DS1 - WITH FUCKING KNOBS ON IT!! into the cart it would have been a lot nicer, maybe a PLUS version??

Anyway my inane rant is finished.

[handy]

Goldcd, the Z64 is a complete 386 computer in itself.

Also, some of those mods you suggest could be pretty expensive & that wouldn't make them worth it.

Most of us already have a zip drive in the computer. Thats cheap compared to having to get a cdrom burner to use a Doc or a CD64.

[Goldcd]

Pentium Motherboard with CPU - £30.
16Mb memory £20
HD - whatever you want to pay.
Old graphics card with TV out, £20
Case £30
SCSI card £30
Keyboard and mouse £10
Network card £10
Modem £20

Making a grand total of £170 (and thats the maximum).
Buy a DrJr v.3 with SCSI interface on it, say £150.

so for the price of a Z64 and a Zip drive you get a machine that is far superior to any other cart copier and allows you to browse the net and get your own Roms. You can watch VCDs, play PC games etc.

[Harrison Electronics]

you seem to have forgotten the cost of a sound card, and cdrom ( for those pc games!)

and a controller( I like the n64 controller mod done by that german guy).... and a monitor....
and an OS.....

[This message has been edited by Harrison Electronics (edited 09-27-1999).]

[Goldcd]

OK, add a soundcard, say £15 for a SB128 and another £15 for a mid-speed CD.

The controller is supposed to be the SCSI card, hopefully if SCSI was implemented on the Dr Jr then it would be fast enough to allow more than just Rom Transfer, which is all parallel does. For instance games could be cracked to allow saves directly to the image in your PC. The Ram cart (jr) would be designed to be connected permanently to the PC.

[_kid]

> The controller is supposed to be the SCSI card, hopefully if SCSI
> was implemented on the Dr Jr then it would be fast enough to allow
> more than just Rom Transfer, which is all parallel does. For instance
> games could be cracked to allow saves directly to the image in your
> PC.
Complete nonsense. The N64 sees the PI devices in a way that does not
allow externally programmed latence there's no 'wait-state' line on
the PI bus... so I'd rule out a direct memory->scsi; not to mention
that almost no PS SCSI controller supports target mode (where the PC
is a peripherial of someone else on the bus..)

> The Ram cart (jr) would be designed to be connected permanently
> to the PC.
What about a nice ISA card? the Z64 itself is a 386 complete with
disks and MSDOS, in which the "cart-emulator" is an ISA device... how
much you would be willing to pay for a semi-internal ISA copier? I
also have a PCI memory device based cart emulator...

[Goldcd]

The PC is the host. In the same way you could send data say to a CD writer you could send it to the memory cart. It was just a suggested replacement to parallel.

[just64bits]

_kid ... actually there are quite a few of PC SCSI controllers support target mode. most Adaptec's "higher ends" do. on ISA there is AHA154x and on PCI AHA2940, 3940, for example.

now back to the ideal backup unit subject ... I would like to see a backup device acts like a print server device. i.e. it has a built-in 10BaseT (or 100BaseT) network interface. now I will store all games on my PC (or even a Linux, NT or Netware file server). when I need to play a game, I will copy the rom to the device (like print to a print spooler ...). with 10Mbits (0r 100mbits) network, this will take seconds for a rom.

the beauty part should be that the backup device (well, actually now becomes a playback device only) is pretty much a dumb device. it has memory and support several network protocols.

[_kid]

> I would like to see a backup device acts like a print server device.
> i.e. it has a built-in 10BaseT (or 100BaseT) network interface. now I
> will store all games on my PC (or even a Linux, NT or Netware file
> server). when I need to play a game, I will copy the rom to the device
> (like print to a print spooler ...). with 10Mbits (0r 100mbits)
> network, this will take seconds for a rom.

I did build a thing similar to your description: used an ethernet chip
and a 16Kbytes eprom with the boot code. It was based on the IP
procotol; when started it asked to a TFTP server a file (rom
image) to place in the "cart-emulator" and run it.
A more sophisticated handling could then be implemented by sending in
some kind of menu instead of a game... Using a 10Mbits ethernet the
download speed was around 400kbytes/sec; I doubt that it would get any
benefit from 100mbits.

> the beauty part should be that the backup device (well, actually now
> becomes a playback device only) is pretty much a dumb device. it has memory and support
> several network protocols.
My design was quite simple for it used the N64 cpu and only the IP
protocols (as any decent system has some kind of TCP/IP support
whereas the other protocols are restricted to some platforms only.)

[Goldcd]

OK I admit defeat my idea would never work.
Could you use standalone print servers, one of the summer jobs I did was working in an office and one of the jobs was installing printers all over the place. The boxes were made by HP and axion (I think) anyway, you just plug them into the network and plug a printer onto the parallel port on them. You can then set the box to be any IP you want and then set up yoru PC to use the parallel port on that IP.